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Subject: 07/31/91 - The National Midnight Star #301
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The National Midnight Star, Number 301
Wednesday, 31 July 1991
Today's Topics:
Administrivia
Replacing worn out recordings.
Re: Rush mailing list
various thangs....
Rush -n- ______
Member bashing?
What Rush calls Rap Might Not Be
Geddy and his Blue Jays
Buddy Rich Video
REM, rap, Rush, and rosebud
The epic last verse of "Mission"
rap--so what?
(none)
----------------------------------------------------------
From: Editor, The National Midnight Star <rush-mgr@syrinx.umd.edu>
Subject: Administrivia
\begin{soapbox-mode}
I'm going to try to keep calm and rational about this. I seriously considered
removing the post from Mark Friedman a couple of issues ago because all he did
was flame the members of this list for posts that he did not agree with. I
kept it in because I feel strongly that my editorial duties should not be
taken lightly (except for the odd quip here and there), and that anything I
remove from here should have good reason(s) as to why. I have removed a few
posts over the last year or so, blatant flames from non-members, posts with
no Rush content at all, and subscription requests. I don't remove anyone's
post because I don't agree with their viewpoint; that's not my job or my right.
I did respond to Mark's flame by saying that I was sorry he felt the way he
did, but this forum existed for a purpose, one that is not currently served
by any Usenet news group, or even would be served well by a newsgroup. This
is here for the discussion of Rush and related topics - this is stated in the
introductory note you all received.
Because I defended the right of anyone to post here and lamented the fact that
because he didn't agree with a few people's viewpoints and questions he felt
he had to flame and leave. Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion
doesn't make you right and them wrong; it's just *different*. Also, the only
stupid question is that which is unasked. I've seen the cancer/etc. rumours
for over ten years, but I don't flame people for asking them. I try to quell
them, but I don't attack the questioner.
Now I'm labeled "holier-than-thou" and a liberal. To the latter charge, I'll
proudly say "Guilty!" You'd prefer a conservative right-winger type, perhaps?
How much censoring do you think would occur in *that* case?? I'm not sure
where the former came from, after re-reading the original post and response.
If explaining why this forum exists is "holier-than-thou", then so be it. I
honestly don't think we'll make it to newsgroup status any time soon, after
seeing the PFloyd legions shot down a while back. Also, if a Rush newsgroup
were created, the S/N ratio would drop to almost zero due to the flame wars
that are sure to ensue. If you've read the groups rec.music.misc or
alt.rock-n-roll in the last year, you know what I mean. Just think of the
delight the Rush-bashers would feel if they discovered rec.music.rush!
\end{soapbox-mode}
I'm sorry this got so long, but I felt the need to say it. Remember folks,
you can always just skip past anything you don't want to read. Opinions are
like assholes; everyone's got one, and they *all* stink.
Let's get on to interesting stuff which *is* Rush-related.
rush-mgr
----------------------------------------------------------
From: vkamutzk@ccs.carleton.ca (Victor Kamutzki)
Subject: Replacing worn out recordings.
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 19:09:26 EDT
Hooyah! I'm pumped. I just got a replacement copy for the cassette
of 2112 that I had worn out from over-play. So, yeah, I'm broke and I
can't afford to invest in a CD player just yet, to say nothing of
replacing all my favorite cassettes with CDs. So I replace the tapes
every now and then. And 2112 was one whose time had come. The old
copy hangs respectfully on my wall.
But this led me to wonder... I like Rush a lot, but after reading
this most excellent digest for the last few months, I realize I am not
nearly the fan that some you are.
How many recordings have you had to replace (be they vinyl or
cassette)? Which ones? How long did you own them before you decided
to replace them? How many of you splurged and replaced the entire
collection with CDs? I'm just curious...
[ I've replaced 2112 on vinyl once, and ATWAS twice. After collecting
everything up through HYF, I then re-bought them all on CD, excepting
"specialty items." rush-mgr ]
Victor Kamutzki
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
< VicTheReceptionist Kamutzki <> "Cast in this unlikely role, >
< vkamutzk@ccs.carleton.ca <> Ill-equipped to act, >
< victor_kamutzki@carleton.ca <> With insufficient tact..." -Peart >
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
----------------------------------------------------------
From: k91ianmu@techno.nepean.uws.EDU.AU (DNA-of-BIOS!)
Subject: Re: Rush mailing list
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 9:49:06 EST
I have had a change of login name.
Please erase k91ianmu@techno.nepean.uws.edu.au from
your list and replace with.:
s91ianmu@techno.nepean.uws.edu.au
Thanks.
Ian Mulry.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 19:56:29 -0500
From: saurav@tgevax.life.uiuc.edu (Saurav Misra)
Subject: various thangs....
1.
Upendra Shardanand asked in what anthology "Gonna Roll Them Bones" might be
found. The anthology I read it in was the first of the (in)famous "Dangerous
Visions" anthologies, edited by the outrageous (and usually overwrought)
Harlan Ellison. It (the story as well as the whole anthology) is quite a good d
read. The story itself is by well-respected Sci-Fi author Fritz Leiber, and
as the anthology is rather well known, you should be able to get it in the
Sci-Fi section of your favourite book nook.
2.
Yo! To all you people putting down rap...give it a break, chumps!!! Just cause
(oops) cause white people got no rhythm...but seriously, the first thing that
came to my mind was more akin to Mike Patton's ramblings in Faith no More's
tune, "Epic", kind of a soft, extended spoken-word-sequence, rather than,
say, Chuck D. I would be mighty surprised to hear the Gedster do the hard-cr-
core NWA thing...
3.
As to the recent trend of people unsubscribing in a huff (and then having the
chutzpah to blame the rest of the people for it)...what the hell is the ma prob
with you guys?!?! If you find something boring, scroll past it for christs sak
sake! These postings were both irritating and patronizing, in my opinion. Yes
the discussions on TNMS sometimes stretch into the fringes of things, but hey
THAT IS THE PREROGATIVE OF THE POSTER!! Just like it is your choice not to
read it. There are fans of all ages and persuasions on this list. For those of
of you who considered some of the discussions "Juvenile", and consider
yourself too mature or wordly or intelligent or cool or whatever to have to
sort through TNMS, good riddance. Personally, I'm thankful for the wide
array of topics and styles on TNMS. Rush-mgr - keep it up! Posters - keep it
up! Don't let these yapping hounds who think they know better stop you.
4. Geez, that was a horrible metaphor....
-Saurav Misra
-saurav@tgevax.life.uiuc.edu
Cool Bands: King's X, Mordred, Saigon Kick - Check em out!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 22:09:38 EDT
Subject: Rush -n- ______
From: roakes@lynx.northeastern.edu!
Hello out there...
Sorry I've been in the readers seat for so long, but the days have
quite hectic. Anyway, there is much I want to comment on, but I'll
try to keep it as short as possible, and say the rest later.
Rush -n- Rap...
I must admit that I'm a little leary about this concept. Rap is great
for those who are into it and there are a number of bands of all styles
who've been able to incorporate into their music. I am particularly fond
of Faith No More's _Epic_ which incorporates rap into a metal song.
It definately should be interesting to say the least, and who knows.
Rush -n- Sabbath...
I noticed in the thank-you's in MP and p/g there is a special thanx to
Bill Ward (origonal drummer for Black Sabbath). Being a drummer and a
big fan of both drummers (although I'm sure we can guess who's my
favorite) I was wondering if anyone out there knew what Bill's connection
with Rush was.
Rush -n- Rumors
We shouldn't come down hard on those who ask about the rumors. After all
some ppl out there are new fans and just don't know. Anyway, I often
find them funny to read, IMHO.
Rush -n- A question for all those in Canada
My old roomate found out that a friend of hers was in the band that opened
for Rush during the Canadian leg of the Presto tour, but she couldn't
remember the name of the band. Can anyone help me name it.
Rush -n- Reviving old classics
When the boys mentioned reviving older songs to please all factions of
their fans, it got me to thinking: what oldies might they bring back on
this tour. Any speculations: The Trees, By-Tor (more of a dream than a
spec), Finding My Way, Beneath Between and Behind. Or how'bout
Circumstances, or Bastille Day (more dreams)
Rush -n- Neils Drum Solo
My friend and I often talk about how Neils been using YYZ as a base
for his solo for the last eight years, and before that he usually used
In The Mood. Does anyone suppose that Where's My Thing? will serve
as a new home for the solo. I hope so. While I could never be bored
by his solos, I would like to see some new fresh changes in it on this
tour.
Oh Well...that's enough from me
ORQ: "When I leave I don't know what I'm hoping to find
When I leave I don't know what I'm leaving behind"
Later...
Dr. Joe
ps. hey boston fans lets hear from ya...
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 19:39:21 -0700
From: mikes@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (60392000)
Subject: Member bashing?
Hello....there seems to be a bit of concern about what I posted last
week sometime...You know...The 'RUMOR????' Well, when I read the guys
posting about it, and basically flamed it <me?> I just paged right on through
it. I was posting a curiosity that a resident in my hall had, and was
wondering if anyone had heard it, or was able to give evidence that it was a
bunch of sh*t. I obviously got a little more then I expected. And there is
one rather large Rush fan, who will miss out on the fun and interesting info
that this newsletter has to offer. He was really disappointed in such a
response.
As for the guy who flamed... I don't really know what to say. Seems
to me that he/she(?) is rather anal retaindent <sp?>. It is unfortunate that
they no longer read the NMS, becuase now there are 2 that will miss out.
Oh well...life goes on. Thank you all for your responses in behave
of putting out the flame.
And like neil said.....Quick to judge....<you know the rest.>
Mikes@ucscb.ucsc.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
From: amy@arla.austin.mcd.mot.com (Amy Moseley)
Subject: What Rush calls Rap Might Not Be
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 22:22:47 CDT
Just a quick thought..
Part of "Territories" is pseudo-rap:
better people
better food
and better beer
are all spoken words as opposed to sung.
so You Never Know until you hear the song.
--
Amy J. Moseley
Motorola Computer Group
(512) 891-2426 :)
amy@austin.mcd.mot.com or
uunet!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!arla!amy
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 23:43:48 -0400
From: jtkung@caf.MIT.EDU (Joseph Kung)
Subject: Geddy and his Blue Jays
Geddy is a huge fan of the Toronto Blue Jays (who happen to be leading
the American League East at the moment by 6 games). I remember some
idiot on Rockline asking Geddy how his beloved Blue Jays were doing
("how about those Blue Jays!") when they had just lost the American
League East by choking once again at the end of the season (they
really choked bad against Detroit one year). Geddy sighed *very*
deeply and just shrugged it off. You could hear that he was depressed.
In any case, Toronto has a good chance this year to be in the World
Series, and it would be great to see the American League won by a
Canadian team. The Skydome where the Blue Jays play is an incredible
ballpark; it would be great to see the World Series there.
- Joe
----------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Buddy Rich Video
From: wilkinso@darkside.com (Sean Flanegan)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 20:14:18 PDT
I saw it just a few days ago and Neil JAMS!!!!!
For the benefit of all who want to know here is as detailed
description as I can give.
Buddy Rich was a famous big band drummer who died a few years
ago. There is a scholarship fund made in his name. A young drummer
with talent is awarded a substantial scholarship each year. ( I believe
it is 10,00 bucks for a music school or something, the student must then
major in music) < SORRY The above amount should read 10,000 bucks>
Anyway there is a big concert event held every year to give away
this scholarship. The winner this year was the bucket boy. you know
the kid on the levis commercial ( in my opinion this was a bad choice,
but enough of my yakin'!! ) In the concert a bunch of famous guest
drummers play with the Buddy Rich Band. This year Omar Hakim, Will
Calhon, and Neil Peart!!! The video can be found at most LARGE music
stores. Guitar center......etc.
Neil plays the song Mexicali Rose it is Excellent!!! HE plays another
but I forget the name. AS Matt pointed out earlier he plays a
traditional four piece set with a double pedal. He plays the cowbell
section of the Rythem Method and a part which may be Red Lenses but I
am not convinced yet I have only seen it once. It is excellent viewing
if you are a Rush fan, A Buddy Rich fan, A bucket boy fan (oohhhh
please!!), or a fan of big band music!!! IT is Fantastic
sean
----------------------------------------------------------
Subject: REM, rap, Rush, and rosebud
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 00:54:30 -0700
From: dougo@soda.berkeley.edu
> From: amy@arla.austin.mcd.mot.com (Amy Moseley)
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 10:46:21 CDT
>
> The song is called "Radio Song" and works quite well; it laments about
> the current state of radio where every song you hear is rap and
> baby-baby-baby I want your body. It talks about two people wanting
> a meaningful relationship and every time they turn on the radio to find some
> good music they hear a song they can't sing along to (rap). This was REM's
> statement about rap, and they did it quite well...
Well, I'm not a REM fan, but I like this song. I thought it was more about
people who listen to the radio and complain because the lyrics tell them
things they don't want to hear, whereas the rapper is complaining about
songs that don't say anything at all. Sorry to talk about REM in the NMS,
but it has a similar message to "Spirit of Radio" (as well as "Sounds of
Silence"). Similar, but not exact; they are both pretty complex, lyrically,
and even say some things which are pretty much opposite. (Figuring out
exactly what things are opposite is left as an exercise for the reader...)
> Don't judge the Rush and rap song until you hear it. "Radio Song" works
> quite well. Only thing I worry about is the smugness of REM fans saying
> "REM did it first." I subscribe to both groups and am fans of both but...
I doubt it will be a total rap song, it will probably just have a short rap
section in the middle. This has been done very effectively in quite a few
songs recently; for example the song "Ten Little Girls" by Curve is mostly a
psychadelic-grunge sort of song, but it has a really cool rap section in the
middle that I didn't even notice until the second or third time I heard the
song. The thing I am the most curious about is whether Geddy will do the
rapping (or even Alex or Neil!) or whether they will have a guest rapper.
If they do have a guest rapper, my guess is it will be someone like KRS One,
or Chuck D from Public Enemy, both of whom have done several guest raps and
are actually intelligent, unlike many of the mainstream rappers out there.
Anyone know of any rappers from Toronto? Aren't the Dream Warriors Canadian?
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 11:45:38 EDT
> From: crossman@xanadu.LCS.MIT.EDU (Paul Crossman)
>
> I am probably in the vast minority of the NMS readers in why I love
> RUSH and their music. I don't read any of Ayn Rand's books, I don't
> theorize about any of the songs, and however I was appalled at Neil's
> reaction to the NMS.
>
> I simply love rush for the two things that attracted me to them.
> 1. Their music -- It is always changing. It is always fresh
> and different. Not stale and flat like most stuff today. Owning the
> the thirteen studio releases is like owning thirteen different albums
> by thirteen different bands. There is always something new to be
> heard each time I listen to every one. The NMS subscribers have
> opened my eyes to things on Rush albums that I had never knew were
> there to hear. I tried to make a tape of my favorite Rush tunes, and
> I wound up with about 3.5 90 min tapes full of material. I was pissed
> because I could not knock it down.
>
> 2. Geddster's voice -- He always says that if had a nickel for
> everyone who hated his voice, he would be RICH. I LOVE GEDDY'S
> VOICE!!!! I know a lot of people who love rush but can not stand
> Geddy's voice. I first heard Geddy when I was about 12 (nine years
> ago). Tom Sawyer was on the radio, and I was completely blown away by
> the song. Geddy's voice took me by storm.
>
> Flame me if you want, but I must warn you, I have a sprinkler
> installed in my mailbox.
>
> IMHO you shouldn't flame a guy for being honest...or curious.
>
> Can't wait for the new album....
>
> P.S. I have sent a copy of this to Mark, and I appologise to anyone
> that I have offended.
Don't be so defensive! (that was not a flame, by the way ...)
I don't think you are in the minority at all. There are tons of Rush fans
who go "Yeah cool Tom Sawyer is bitchin'" and couldn't care less about Ayn
Rand. I haven't read any of her books (although I plan to get _Atlas
Shrugged_ next time I'm in the bookstore), although I do like to think about
different ways to interpret the lyrics. But the number one reason I listen
to Rush is definitely the music. I honestly think that Neil is THE best
drummer alive, and that Geddy is THE best bassist alive, and that Alex is..
well, he's a great painter (he has far too much competition, but he is ONE
OF THE best guitarists alive...) Maybe I sound like just another raving
fan, but I just can't listen to songs like "Freewill" or "YYZ" and not come
to this conclusion. I have listened to hundreds of other bands, so I
consider myself a fairly good judge of talent (though I don't actually play
any instruments myself...) It just happens that Neil writes such wonderful
lyrics to think about while I'm being knocked out by the virtuosity; but I
wouldn't like Rush any less if they kept singing "Hey baby it's a quarter to
eight, I feel I've got to move". (Funny, though, "Working Man" has some of
the best Rush lyrics, even though Neil didn't write it...)
I also agree with you in that Geddy has a great voice. I also like Jon
Anderson's voice. For some reason nobody I know can stand either of them;
even the Rush and Yes fans that I know say "I like 'em a lot except I can't
stand the singer". The only two singers who I really can't stand are Danny
Elfman (he just sounds too fake!) and Michael Stipe (he whines too much,
almost as much as Morrissey these days).
I should put some pithy Rush quote here to sum up my point, but instead I'll
quote Voltaire: "A witty saying proves nothing."
- DougO
P.S. My current favorite (non-Rush) albums, ICYC:
The Cure -- Disintegration
Sonic Youth -- Goo
The Stone Roses -- (self-titled)
Jane's Addiction -- Ritual de lo Habitual
Lush -- Gala
EMF -- Schubert Dip
Primus -- Frizzle Fry )
King's X -- Gretchen Goes To Nebraska ) Some more great
Husker Du -- Warehouse ) "power trio"s!
The Police -- Regatta de Blanc )
----------------------------------------------------------
Subject: The epic last verse of "Mission"
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 22:39:05 CDT
From: David Sandberg <sialis!dts@cs.umn.edu>
Gregg Jaeger wrote (in response to Amy Moseley):
> ........... The underlying idea, it seems to me, is that those
> who didn't make it most likely wouldn't be happy if they _did_
> because it's just not in their nature to do so...
>
> ........................... _don't_ refer to those who made it but
> to those who struggled to make it but didn't. It's cold comfort for
> themselves that only _they_ know how _they_ struggled and suffered.
> That really makes it _cold_ comfort!
I disagree. (Succinct, don't you think? B-)
Okay, now let's see if I can explain why. (Batten down the
hatches, there's a storm coming up...)
First off, I think the type of 'mission' talked about in the song
is more than mere success. Rush is certainly successful, but
Neil's lyrics talk about viewing these great works of art almost
as a pupil or disciple, rather than as an equal... consider the
lyric "I wish I had that instinct... I wish I had that drive."
If Neil doesn't feel he has 'that kind' of drive, then he's
talking about only the very greatest artists history has to
offer... people like Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky. (Excuse the
preponderance of musical names - I'm not up to speed on great
architects. B-) Often these kinds of artists were so consumed by
their missions as to let everything else in their lives slide...
they're the kind of people who died young and destitute because
all they could ever think about was their obsession... but that
selfsame obsession is what made their art immortal. (Consider
the lyrics "I gaze at their FEVERISH pictures... the secrets
that set them apart" and "In the GRIP of a nameless possession,
SLAVE to the drive of OBSESSION".)
Now, the whole song up to the last verse (and even there, in my
opinion) is obviously referring to these people with a mission.
"I hear THEIR passionate music"... "I feel the powerful visions
THEIR fires made alive"... "I walk through THEIR beautiful
buildings", and so forth. All through the rest of the song the
word "they" is referring to these mysterious people who were
endowed with an obsessive mission.
Now reread the last verse, continuing to interpret "they" in the
same way (i.e., as applying to those with a mission):
it's cold comfort
for the ones without it
to know how they struggled
how they suffered about it
if their lives were exotic and strange
they would likely have gladly exchanged them
for something a little more plain
maybe something a little more sane
In this light, here's the meaning I get from it:
people who badly want a mission but don't have one
are unlikely to find much comfort in the thought that
those endowed with that flame of obsession often had
very difficult lives nonetheless (and in fact many
might have preferred not to have had the obsession at
all, even at the cost of their fame... i.e., they were
dragged along, slaves to their mission, rather than
choosing the path willingly).
-----
I should mention that this is how I interpreted the song the very
first time I heard it... it seemed so natural and obvious to me
that I was stunned to see other listeners drawing such different
conclusions from it. And I think that the "immortal art" angle
enriches the song that much more: whenever I listen to "Mission"
(which is often), in my mind are conjured images of Mozart lying
feverish and dying on his bed, desperately attempting to finish
the Requiem Mass before it's too late... I see images of young
Piotr Tchaikovsky running to his mother in the middle of the
night, crying that he "couldn't make the music in his head stop".
Those are images that move me both to envy and to pity... which
is exactly what I believe the third verse of "Mission" is about.
--
\*=- David Sandberg, dts@quad.sialis.com ,=, ,=, -=*\
\*=- "A spirit with a vision | |uadric `=,ystems -=*\
\*=- is a dream with a mission" `=\ `=' -=*\
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 12:42:13 -0400
From: abramsc@knoc.dnet.dupont.com
Subject: rap--so what?
What's wrong a rush song having a rap song -- for crying out loud, rush
makes the music, not us. let the boyz do what they want. they *are*
a progressive band and who's to say they're not progressing? If you
generally do not like rap, and i don't, that's okay, but don't all
of a sudden assume that rush is selling out (they wouldn't last a
day on BET)-- IMHO, they boyz are just experimenting with some new
sounds...of course, very few have even *heard* this rap section--it
may stink, i don't know. maybe they'll show LL Cool J how it's done...
> ..and to whoever that was who said we don't need the "gospel according
to rush-mgr"...what makes *your* gospel any better? i say he's got just
as much right to express his opinion in this newsletter as anyone.
later
--cam
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 10:20:15 PDT
From: donehoo@olivee.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle W. Donehoo)
It seems some few people participating in the NMS have direct access
to the members of RUSH. It occures to me, particularly after Mr. Pearts
rather human knee-jerk reaction to a superficial perusal of NMS (during
a period of especially inane subject matter), that someone with this
privileged access should print out a few hundred pages of NMS with a good
cross-section of material and subject matter (including the MFAQ list) and
present it to them at some opportune time. It could be more enlightening
than any quick scan and impression Peart may have gotten previously.
Well, it's a thought.
-DWD
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Ok, one more time... This is your brain... This is your brain |
| on MIDI.... Any questions?......" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
----------------------------------------------------------
To submit material to The National Midnight Star, send mail to:
rush@syrinx.umd.edu
For administrative matters (additions, deletions, changes, and
questions), send mail to:
rush-request@syrinx.umd.edu or
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There is now anonymous ftp access available on Syrinx. The network
address to ftp to is:
syrinx.umd.edu or 128.8.2.114
When you've connected, userid is "anonymous", password is <your userid>.
Once you've successfully logged on, change directory (cd) to 'rush'.
There is also a mail server available (for those unable or unwilling to
ftp). For more info, send email with the subject line of HELP to:
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These requests are processed nightly. Use a subject line of MESSAGE to
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The contents of The National Midnight Star are solely the opinions and
comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the
opinions of the authors' management, or the mailing list management.
Copyright The Rush Fans Mailing List, 1991.
Editor, The National Midnight Star
(Rush Fans Mailing List)
********************************************
End of The National Midnight Star Number 301
********************************************